Legion Wiki talk:Community Portal

The status quo

Okay, probably best to start with "where things stand right now":

1. All pages/revisions from 2008-2010 that anyone reading this can't restore should be considered "Lost for good"
2. The images uploaded in that time exist on the server, but the out-of-date database doesn't know they're there.
3. The temporary database files are incompatible with the old database files, for the cherry on top. NC's trying to make them fit, but I don't think there was much there anyway.

Summation: over - Reboot (SoM) talk page 23:38, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Is it possible to copy over pages from the old database to a newer version of MediaWiki, basically create everything again in a new database? If possible, would images be recognized by the new arrangement, and is it worth the effort? I'm resigned to the fact that we will have to recreate everything from the last couple of years. I think I have quite a bit of the research, just will take take to remember what was there and then rebuild it. My current questions are:

1. What can we do to insure against anything like this happening again? I know that I will be saving copies of large important pages that I work on, but we can't save backup copies of every page we work on.
2. How much of a pain is it to make backup copies of the database on the regular basis? If this were a company, I would suggest we store backups with Iron Mountain, but I don't think that's a path we will be going down. However, we could burn a copy to DVD and send to a couple of people or upload a copy of the file to a commonly accessible location. I'd be willing to pick up the tab for any incidental costs in doing this, as long as they don't get out of hand.
3. How do we handle the image files that exist but are not recognized? Should we re-upload or is there a way that we can get them recognized again by changing the wiki code or pointing the main settings file to a different folder?

Gopher 01:31, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

1 and 2 are really for NC to answer.

On 3, image uploads aren't enabled yet - but once they are, there's no way to fully automate it since the image descriptions (i.e., the pages associated with the files) are lost and will need to be retyped like any other lost page - the server can't tell that this is a cartoon screencap, nor what episode its' from, nor what characters appear in it. Given the URLs to the images, we could tell the server to download the files from itself, but otherwise it's all manual. - Reboot (SoM) talk page 02:18, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Wiki logo - I would prefer the new Wikipedia style logo to the old Time Trapper one. Any chance we could point to that instead?

Also, one nice point about restart to a degree is that all of the spammers we have banned in the past will no longer be part of our user list. Given that we don't have a huge number of people beating a path to actually edit the site, should we consider granting edit rights by permission only? We could add a page that explains the reasons why and link it from the main page. Just a thought.

Gopher 02:51, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Here's the deal - The original Legion Wiki was Scott's idea and he did all of the set up using his "Legion Clubhouse" website/server/domain etc. all separate to "Legion World." Legion World was set up and "owned" by me but with plenty of other people including Scott who have been given access to contribute to and maintain. Until this past weekend, I didn't have access to either the Wiki's server or database to either back up or maintain. So, whatever issues that existed before have no bearing on what happens from now on. I have no intentions of abandoning the Wiki or letting it slip off the web.

With that said -

1. I back up Legion World as regularly as I can and have had to restore a topic or two in the past for various reasons...sometimes several days of posts wound up missing, but there's only so often you can back things up. I do suggest and encourage copying any significant work to your local computer. I have Word doc files of stuff I've worked on and created on Legion World, even though I also backup the actual MB files.

2. Our host has phpMyAdmin which allows you to download/upload a database as a .sql file. It's a relatively fast and easy process, which I plan to do at least once a week from here on out. With that file (now using the established format), I can always upload and restore any catastrophes that may occur.

3. This is more about that fact that the database we have is from 2008ish, but the images & folders that Scott saved were from 2010. The database isn't going to recognize them as it's not as up-to-date as the files. There's nothing we can do about it. The more updated database wasn't preserved and we do not have access to it to upload, unfortunately. You can see what images we have in the folders here - http://www.legionwiki.com/wiki/images/

Image uploads are re-enabled. Sorry. Apparently that's the default setting and to "fix" stuff I needed to have the wiki rebuild it's Settings file.

Part of the issue this weekend was simply because there are various ways to set up a wiki and Scott and I had differed on some of the variables. This same reason is why I can't simply add in the wiki database we started the last few weeks into the wiki database that Scott had created years ago and has now been set up here. The naming conventions are different.

Another quirk was that I had given Scott the sub-folder location info on where this all is within LegionWorld.NET's file structure and forgot to mention that this was actually LegionWorld.COM. So, he was setting us up as a sub-folder in the .NET rather than it's own entity. I was able to figure it all out with Scott's help and here we are. I'm more than willing to help with what I can, please let me know if there's an MediaWiki feature we're missing (we're currently using the latest, even newer than I started version 1.15.4).

Nightcrawler 03:13, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Regarding the logo - Scott mentioned what Gerard said at Legion World about it -

"It may or may not qualify as okay legally - I'm not sure - but I prefer the Trapper logo, TBH. The only thing I would change is to move the LW a bit so it looks less tacked on (probably to the left of Legion Wiki rather than the right) - otherwise, it's a very good logo as-is."

I'll let you guys decide about limiting permissions. I've restored the features Gerard asked for previously.

--Nightcrawler 03:48, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Operational questions

I tried moving the Yildiray Cinar page to Yıldıray Çınar and received an error message. No luck trying to create a link for the correct spelling, which was what I originally tried. Looks like there is no issue with using these characters in the body of a page, but having a page containing expanded character sets is currently not allowed. We didn't have an issue doing this in the old version. A setting perhaps? Gopher 03:45, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Looking at the error message, I suspect it may have triggered an anti-phishing* filter on the server against mixing latin & non-latin characters... - Reboot (SoM) talk page 15:07, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

[*That should be an interwiki link to [1]. Obviously, the interwiki tables need a tuneup]

Interestingly, I copied the text for his name from the title of a Wikipedia page. If they can do it, we should be able to also. Gopher 01:16, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Logo

Splitting this and the following section from the above for ease of reply... - Reboot (SoM) talk page 22:41, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Wiki logo - I would prefer the new Wikipedia style logo to the old Time Trapper one. Any chance we could point to that instead? - Gopher 02:51, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Regarding the logo - Scott mentioned what Gerard said at Legion World about it -

"It may or may not qualify as okay legally - I'm not sure - but I prefer the Trapper logo, TBH. The only thing I would change is to move the LW a bit so it looks less tacked on (probably to the left of Legion Wiki rather than the right) - otherwise, it's a very good logo as-is."

--Nightcrawler 03:48, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

*goes back to look at the context of that* [Four years ago?! How time flies...]

Ah, the "legally" bit was because LL originally had a direct copy of the Wikipedia logo with Interlac letters - a definite no-no - wasn't it?

Right now, this is tied up for me a lot with the skin, and whether we want to stick with the default Wikipedia-style skin in total, or customise it to some extent (as I'd like to). I don't much like the red/yellow "Legion Wiki" any more, and although I still like the Trapper picture itself, if we're part of a LegionWorld "family" with the .com and .net, then having a Legion World-based logo would make sense, although I'd rather not have a Wikipedia-font "LegionWiki" below it. - Reboot (SoM) talk page 22:41, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

My main issue with the Trapper image is that while, yes, the Trapper is part of Legion lore, he's not the Legion. I feel like the image should be of founders or the HQ or a Legion cruiser or something other than one villain, albeit an example of a Legion villain who has lasted (literally) through several reboots. Couldn't we have a picture of a Legion flight ring or a time bubble or some Legionnaires flying or something more positive than a creepy looking villain? Gopher 01:09, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Permissions

Also, one nice point about restart to a degree is that all of the spammers we have banned in the past will no longer be part of our user list. Given that we don't have a huge number of people beating a path to actually edit the site, should we consider granting edit rights by permission only? We could add a page that explains the reasons why and link it from the main page. Just a thought. - Gopher 02:51, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

I'll let you guys decide about limiting permissions. I've restored the features Gerard asked for previously.--Nightcrawler 03:48, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

My basic thought is "We need more contributors" - especially with the damage done by the partial db loss - and anything that discourages genuine contributors Is Bad (...and if anyone's got any ideas to get additional people working here, speak up...). OTOH, I can see CG's point, but I think revoking edit rights explicit permission is a step too far, especially since NC's installed a CAPTCHA for registration.

Looking at Special:ListGroupRights, I think one possible balance might be to move the ability to create & move pages and upload files (createpage, move and upload respectively) to the Autoconfirmed group (what are the current limits on that? It's "must have been a member for X days *and* have made Y edits" as I recall, but I don't know what the defaults on X and Y are. They wouldn't need to be that high - something like 1 day and 3 edits would weed out 99% of spammers if that's all we're aiming at). Restricting editing in general to invite-only would only make sense to me with a far larger, active, existing base.

Incidentally, on spammers/vandals, there appears to be no-one with either the checkuser (check IP addresses) or lock database (which came up in the dying days of the "old" wiki) permission as far as I can see. Do you have those, NC? - Reboot (SoM) talk page 22:41, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

All points well taken. My intent is to stop spammers, not discourage contributors. I think an X days Y edits rule would do the trick. If I am a spammer and wait two days and then spam three edits, will that give me the ability to create a page? Do edits need to be approved to grant the rights? Gopher 01:14, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

New category for Supergirl/Green Lantern/Booster Gold covers

We hashed through this a while ago, but I can't remember how we handled it. There are enough Supergirl covers now that they should really have their own category. However, if we use the typical method, "Supergirl v5 covers", "Supergirl v3 covers", etc., there are not really enough of the earlier volumes to justify their own category.

I think I had proposed a general Supergirl covers category, and I know we discussed several possibilities. Do you remember what we ended up doing? The same issue exists for Green Lantern and Booster Gold. I listed a category "Booster Gold covers""" on one cover image, but have not created the category yet. Gopher 11:36, 8 June 2010 (UTC)